Engaging the culture with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Truth

“What if you don’t want to be a Calvinist??? What if you don’t want to be a Christian??? Are you stuck with God anyway???”

As I was reading through a thread of some people arguing for and against the doctrines of grace (AKA Calvinism) I found the statement above. This is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever read, yet I used to believe this way as well. As I read, one thing became evident. Those who reject Calvinism reject it because they do not understand it; whether willfully or just plain blindness to it. As Charles Spurgeon said, “We are made Calvinist by the grace of God.” People who don’t like the thought that God chooses some before the foundation of the world, as is clearly taught in Scripture, do so because they have a man-centered theology. They do not see themselves as they truly are – wicked, sinful creatures who are absolutely worthless and deserve nothing but HELL at this very moment. We were all born God hating, and apart from the sovereign grace of Almighty God, none of us would be saved.
It is not about one’s believing a thing to be true. The believer’s faith doesn’t make the blood of Christ effective in his/her life, the blood of Christ purchased that faith and made it effective in their life.
If you are one of those who despise these biblical truths, listen to what you are saying! You exalt your unbiblical logic above the very words of Christ. Read John 6, 10, 17; the entire book; all four accounts of the gospel for that matter; Ephesians 1, 2, etc. The Sovereignty of God in all things is all through Scripture. The doctrine of election is taught by Jesus. He told the Jews in Matthew’s accounting of the gospel that there were many widows that were starving, yet He chose to only send His prophet to one. He said there were many lepers, yet He chose to heal Naaman. The Jews understood Christ to be saying that He chooses who to have mercy on. This angered them and they wanted to push Him off the cliff.
I am not upset at the attacks people make on Calvin, as he is a man who was imperfect. Although he loved The LORD and sought the glory of God above his own, he was just as human as any.
It grieves me that men are so adamant at holding on to the one thing that gives you “god-status”. Free will. This is the very lie Satan propounded to Eve. Men like this because they think this allows them to control their destiny. But all this false teaching does is make man the center and reason why God does all He does. It reduces God to a powerless pleader, like a little high school girl begging for Johnny to call her and ask her out, but unable to convince him to do so; all she can do is try to doll herself up and attempt to catch his eye and hope. They remove all power from the atonement in order to maintain their perceived concept of free will. What is being forgotten is that Christ did not pay man, He did not pay Satan. He bore the wrath of Almighty God for the sins of His people. When He cried, “It is finished!” He was right. He ransomed men from every tribe and tongue to God. When He said He came to seek and to save the lost, he was successful in His mission. God is not a failure. Scripture teaches that Jesus Christ shall have the prize for which He died – His church, those bought with His blood. This enrages some- The fact that Christ did not ransom all men. But those who it enrages are such because they have somehow fancied mankind as worth saving.

At the heart of all their disputing is their failure to see man as he is, and it is only by God’s grace that we will see ourselves as we truly are – dead in our trespasses and sins. We would always reject God, apart from His saving grace. “For by grace are ye saved…”
No man wants to be a Christian, it is by God’s grace that his heart is changed and he desires The LORD. “We love Him because He first loved us.” He loved me before the foundations of the world, I can not help but love Him back. By His grace He changed my stony heart to a heart of flesh and I willing love Him. “It is God that worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.” (emphasis added)

May God, by His grace, open our eyes to the truth.

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8 responses

  1. “Those who reject Calvinism reject it because they do not understand it; whether willfully or just plain blindness to it.”

    Certainly you didn’t mean to write such an incredibly arrogant and evil statement as this. Perhaps the words came out wrong and you would be wise to restate them since, as Peter says to give the reasons for hope with love and respect. Sovereignty extends to everything, not just your doctrine of supralapsarian election. God is free to order the entire universe the way that he wants to and any Bible reading beyond the proof texts that you demand that we read points you to a much broader conclusion. Perhaps instead of pejorative accusations, you should offer some scriptural reasons why non Calvinists might be wrong.

    July 13, 2008 at 12:43 pm

  2. commissioned2serve

    The statement is not meant to be arrogant, nor is it in any way evil. It is delivered just as when we tell a man that Jesus Christ is the only way of salvation.T hat he can find forgiveness in no one else or nothing else. They say this is arrogant and narrow minded, yet it is truth.
    Scripture tells us that men do not believe the truth, and there are three persons who cause their blindness: Self, Satan, and God. The statement I made on a man’s rejection of the doctrines of grace are for one of two reasons (which happen to be why men reject any truth) 1. They willfully shut their eyes to it, refusing to believe; or 2. They have never comprehended it in the first place.
    To attribute ignorance to a man is not pride it is mercy. i stated that I too once held this belief, and thought I made it very clear that rejection of truth is the choice of every man apart from the grace of God.
    I agree with you that God is free to order the entire universe any way that He wants to. And since He has already done that and tells us of it in His Word, it is that to which we turn to learn how He has done so. Your statement of “any reading beyond proof texts” that I demand you read would lead to a broader conclusion, I must disagree with. 1. I am not sure how you can get much broader than the Old and New Testaments. 2. I have had discussions like you are requesting countless times with multiple people. no matter how much Scripture I present, you will not consider it admissible. This is why Spurgeon said it is by God’s grace we are made calvinists. It is not a thing a man understands on his own. We cannot comprehend God’s truth apart from the work of The Holy Spirit. If the Scriptural reasons I gave in the related posts are not satisfactory to you then I recommend you visit the links I have listed on the site. They are there for the purpose of those who are desiring to see what God’s Word has to say on the matter.
    God has convinced my heart of these truths. I know from my own experience that I rejected them previously due to my not understanding them. I also know there are men diabolically opposed to them. It is God exalting/man debasing biblical truth. As you probably already know – when you present truth as it is, it will be misunderstood. As apparently is the case here.
    I do not doubt that you sincerely love The LORD. Nor am I so prideful as to think that God cannot use one of your belief for His glory – if He can quicken this dead wretch, and place me in the ministry, then there is no one He can’t use.
    If it please Him, may He use this to deepen your understanding of His grace. To God be all the glory.

    July 13, 2008 at 5:31 pm

  3. You close with an interesting assertion, that God might be able to use of my belief for His glory. I ask, given that you don’t know me, what are my beliefs?

    Second, you make a logical error in your determination to defend Jean and his Augustinian theological framework. You say

    “The statement I made on a man’s rejection of the doctrines of grace are for one of two reasons (which happen to be why men reject any truth) 1. They willfully shut their eyes to it, refusing to believe; or 2. They have never comprehended it in the first place.”

    There is actually a third option which must be considered and that is that an idea may simply be wrong and therefore not the truth. Why do you not consider it possible that a person may (not be as naive as you think) fully comprehend the Calvinist doctrine and reject it because of Biblical evidence? Is it because you want to shut your eyes to a possible alternative as you accuse others of doing?

    And quoting Spurgeon, as most Calvinists are fond of doing, is no way of making an argument. Shall the Arminian pepper his theological discussions with quotes from Wesley as a way stating that this or that is a definitive statement? Why not discuss theology on your own rather than discussing theology in the Third-person telling us what other people say?

    By the way, you never addressed the question on Sovereignty that I brought up earlier. Would you like to do so now?

    July 14, 2008 at 3:00 pm

  4. commissioned2serve

    Sovereignty
    Psa 135:6 Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places.

    Pro 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

    Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

    Rom 9:17 For the Scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
    Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
    Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

    Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
    Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
    Isa 46:11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

    Pro 19:21 There are many devices in a man’s heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.

    Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

    Pro 16:9 A man’s heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

    Psa 2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
    Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
    Psa 2:3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
    Psa 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

    The depravity of man
    Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

    Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
    Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
    Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
    Rom 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
    Rom 3:14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
    Rom 3:15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
    Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
    Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
    Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

    Pro 21:4 A high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.

    Psa 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

    Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

    Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

    Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

    Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

    These are by no means exhaustive, but they are a few verses of what God’s Word teaches about the two issues at hand.
    May The LORD be glorified through our discussion.

    July 15, 2008 at 3:04 am

  5. All very good verses from the good Word but frankly, no kind of discussion. I fully understand the meaning of sovereignty and the depravity of man, neither of which I questioned from your earlier post. Do you have an answer to the specific questions I have posed?

    God is glorified by those who love him and who act out of that love toward others. He is in no way glorified by being named the author of sin and evil in the world.

    July 16, 2008 at 8:15 pm

  6. commissioned2serve

    “Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
    Mat 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward hungry.
    Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
    Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”

    Christ was led to a specific place for the specific purpose of being tempted. A point in
    His ministry that was planned. Scheduled temptation. Yet God is not the author of sin.

    And when Satan was about his business, Christ didn’t dialogue, He quoted Scripture.

    Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
    Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

    God had planned the crucifixion of Christ. Yet is not responsible for those men breaking the law with perjury, murder, etc. Yet their deeds were part of the plan of God.

    My faith rests upon The Word of God, for herein is His power. If you would like to argue what I believe, argue with Scripture.

    Isa 55:11 ” So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.”

    July 16, 2008 at 10:44 pm

  7. There are a few things that fascinate me about “Calvinism”. The first is the pride calvinists take in their sinful state. Had the book of I Timothy been written by a calvinist instead of Paul the apostle, then every third verse would have been a declaration of the superior status of his depravity. I know that I’m a depraved, hopeless sinner apart from the grace of God; but as Paul mentions the magnitude of his sinful state, he mentions it almost as an after thought in relation to the grace of God…
    “That Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief” I Tim. 1:15b

    The next thing that fascinates me is the unbridled arrogance that is inherent to the calvinist doctrine. I can’t help but balk at the pride of a man that would say…”God only WANTS a few people to be save, and He takes PLEASURE in the damnation of others; YOU might not be on the list, but I know I DEFINITELY am!” I’ve never heard a calvinist question their own election, only the election of others. And what do we do with scriptures like II Peter 3:9
    “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, NOT WILLING that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. ”

    The third thing (and probably the most fascinating to me) is the highly outspoken nature of the modern calvinist. I would dare say that within the last 3 years the calvinists have been the most persistent and insistent “Christian” group that I’ve encountered. But to what avail? Calvinists are screaming at the top of their lungs from every forum available “You HAVE to see things my way! You HAVE to convert to calvinism! You HAVE to R E F O R M!!!” What I don’t understand is… Why the urgency? If man has no free will… if man can only act as God wills… and if I have no choice in the matter then why must calvinists continue to defend calvinism and attempt to convert or reform others. If you truly believe that God has programmed my every action, acceptance, and beliefe since before the foundations of the world, then why not just sit back, be quiet, and let God work. If you believe that we can not choose to accept or reject Christ, then your time spent evangelizing (ha!) and attempting to convince others is vanity… empty… useless. Worse than that, it is an exercise in your own lack of faith in God’s omnipotence. Or perhaps it goes back to the pride issue. Or perhaps calvinists say they are simply obeying the command to “Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel..”. But why would The Lord give us such a wasteful command with no value or goal? Unless, of course, you can take John 3 at face value when it says…
    “That WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God sent not his son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved.”

    And don’t even get me started on “limited atonement”!
    ISAIAH 53
    6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity OF US ALL.

    August 6, 2008 at 8:49 am

  8. commissioned2serve

    “There are a few things that fascinate me about “Calvinism”. The first is the pride calvinists take in their sinful state. Had the book of I Timothy been written by a calvinist instead of Paul the apostle, then every third verse would have been a declaration of the superior status of his depravity. I know that I’m a depraved, hopeless sinner apart from the grace of God; but as Paul mentions the magnitude of his sinful state, he mentions it almost as an after thought in relation to the grace of God…
    “That Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief” I Tim. 1:15b”
    It is interesting you insinuate Paul was not a “calvinist” as Paul is one of the men that teaches us these very doctrines (Romans 3, 8, 9; Eph 1, 2, I Corinthians 1, etc). In saying that, I state that Calvinism did not originate with John Calvin, but rather is taught in Scripture. This is supported Scripturally (as I aim to show) and historically. And in the part of Scripture you quote, Paul does exactly what you are decrying. If you look at his statement it is a far cry from almost an afterthought. This is not a minor addition to a statement. Why did he go out of his way to specify that he was the worst sinner? And not just the worst in his day, or of his people group, but the worst sinner to ever live. Paul also speaks of himself as being the least of the apostles. This is a very self deprecating doctrine. Isaiah said the same thing when He saw The LORD in Isaiah 6 – “Woe is me…” Of all the damning woes he pronounced on the people, the first one was on himself, for he saw himself worthy of the worst of death. Scripture does teach us that we are depraved hopeless sinners apart from the grace of God. (Jeremiah 13:23, Jeremiah 17:9) You find men who came in contact with The LORD of glory, and they fell on their faces as dead men. Not only did Isaiah curse himself, Peter fell at Christ’s feet and said to leave him as he is wicked; Job said that he hated himself, Jacob said he should be dead, etc. The problem with us today is that we fail to see sin as it truly is. We don’t run the danger of making ourselves too wicked, but rather downplaying our sinful state. How else could one say he is born in sin, God-hating, at enmity with God, dead in sin, drinking iniquity as if it were water? One of the things a man sees when he sees The LORD is his own utter depravity. We are not cute little sinners who God loves and tries to convince us to love Him back. We are filthy, vile and wicked. God says our righteous works are filthy rags (an extremely crude statement in the Hebrew). God says He cannot even look upon our wickedness. The blacker we see ourselves as, the more glorious He becomes to us! Oh, praise His name! That Christ has reconciled sinful men through the blood of Jesus Christ. That He who knew no sin became sin for us. I can’t imagine words to describe what He must have endured for the redemption of His people. I do not fear of making too much of my wickedness, I fear of making to little of it.

    “The next thing that fascinates me is the unbridled arrogance that is inherent to the calvinist doctrine. I can’t help but balk at the pride of a man that would say…”God only WANTS a few people to be save, and He takes PLEASURE in the damnation of others; YOU might not be on the list, but I know I DEFINITELY am!” I’ve never heard a calvinist question their own election, only the election of others. And what do we do with scriptures like II Peter 3:9
    “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, NOT WILLING that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. “” Pride is not inherent to the Calvinist doctrine. I will confess there are prideful men who hold these truths, but then there are men consumed with pride who hold your beliefs as well. The statement that God has chosen some to be saved and others He has left in their sin, is not a statement of pride but of Scripture. Romans 9 tells us that God will have mercy on whoever He wants to, and it is His right to do such. We are told in the book of John what we are born of God, not of our own wills. In Acts we are taught that there are men who were ordained to eternal life. The very words of Christ tells us in the book of Matthew that He chooses men (and when he spoke this the people were enraged and tried to push Him from a cliff). As for God taking pleasure in the damnation of the wicked, Scripture plainly states that is not the case. Yet Scripture plainly states that there are men who He has passed over. Paul speaks of this in Romans 9 as well. Why God has chosen to not save every man when He has the power to do so is beyond our ability to understand, as well as He does not tell us that in Scripture – only that the choice is with Him. As for “YOU might not be on the list, but I know I DEFINITELY am” is an interesting way to look at it. Scripture tells us in Revelation that there is The Lamb’s book of life and that people were written in it from the foundation of the world. God knows who is on it, for God has chosen these men. We do not know who is on it. I only know I am. You only know you are, you do not know I am. Even if I tell you so, you do not know it. A Calvinist doesn’t question his own election because scripture teaches us that faith and repentance are evidences of election. God says all those who come to Christ will be received. But prior to that, in the same verse, He tells us that no man can come except he be drawn (a forceful word) of God. The change God wrought in me tells me I need not question my election. As for II Peter 3:9 – I would encourage you to keep the verse in it’s context. Peter is writing to God’s children. He says God is not slack concerning His promises, but is longsuffering to usward (who are the uswards? That is vital as Peter argues that God’s delaying His return is due to His patience toward the “uswards”), not willing that any [of us] should perish, but that all should come to repentance. The verse of which you speak says God delays His coming for the purpose of people coming to repentance. Aside from the context of this verse not supporting your argument, the logic you employ does not either. If God were delaying His return to try to get everyone saved, then He would not return until ever man was saved, unless He just gives up on those who are just too hard hearted for Him to woo. Then, He sends a delusion to ensure that those who didn’t believe on Him believe a lie in the anti-christ. That is not Scriptural, nor logical. We are told just a few verses down in this passage that we are to account the longsuffering of The LORD as salvation. God has ordained the ends of a thing and the means by which that ends it accomplished. He allows the wheat and the tares to grow together until the time appointed. Again, I end this standing in awe at the Sovereign plan of God.

    “The third thing (and probably the most fascinating to me) is the highly outspoken nature of the modern calvinist. I would dare say that within the last 3 years the calvinists have been the most persistent and insistent “Christian” group that I’ve encountered. But to what avail? Calvinists are screaming at the top of their lungs from every forum available “You HAVE to see things my way! You HAVE to convert to calvinism! You HAVE to R E F O R M!!!” What I don’t understand is… Why the urgency? If man has no free will… if man can only act as God wills… and if I have no choice in the matter then why must calvinists continue to defend calvinism and attempt to convert or reform others. If you truly believe that God has programmed my every action, acceptance, and beliefe since before the foundations of the world, then why not just sit back, be quiet, and let God work. If you believe that we can not choose to accept or reject Christ, then your time spent evangelizing (ha!)
    and attempting to convince others is vanity… empty… useless. Worse than that, it is an exercise in your own lack of faith in God’s omnipotence. Or perhaps it goes back to the pride issue. Or perhaps calvinists say they are simply obeying the command to “Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel..”. But why would The Lord give us such a wasteful command with no value or goal? Unless, of course, you can take John 3 at face value when it says…
    “That WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God sent not his son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved.””

    Your fascination with our highly outspoken nature is encouraging. It let’s me know that others are sharing these truths with people. Others like C. H. Spurgeon, and Jonathan Edwards were outspoken in their day. We need men like that. We need to have men who will proclaim the doctrines of grace as we have strayed so far from them. The gospel given to day has been so watered down and man-centered that it is weak. Men have come to think they are saved because of a decision they made to let Christ save them. We have devised a god who’s entire being is wrapped up in us; when in reality it is the other way around. You do not have to see things my way, nor do you have to reform. I believe there will be Armenians in heaven, and I believe there will be Calvinists in hell. But these doctrines are Scriptural, and God exalting. It is not so much that I want you to agree with me, but I desire for you to see these truths as they are so self-deprecating and God-exalting. I can’t explain the effect of understanding these truths.
    To answer your question of “why the urgency?” God has planned out everything that will happen from the bug that flew into your windshield to WW II. We are told that He declares the end from the beginning. His sovereignty far transcends our understanding. God has ordained everything and brings it about, and during all this we make our decisions and they are exactly what The LORD has planned. We preach the gospel because The LORD says that it is through preaching that His Holy Spirit calls men to Himself. Preaching is the God ordained means of bringing His children to Himself. The gospel is pure foolishness to the lost world, but to those who are called of God it is completely different. Even in discussing the doctrines of grace with you. My words are futile, unless God works. Unless The LORD build a house, they labor in vain that build it. We are told to preach the gospel. We are commanded to tell men of their wicked, lost, hopeless state. To tell them of God’s wrath upon their sin, of the Christ who died to save men, and we tell them to repent of their sins and believe on The LORD Jesus Christ. This is the gospel. (which is also the doctrines of grace). Which brings me to your question of “why would The Lord give us such a wasteful command with no value or goal?” The command does have a goal, it is to bring His sheep to faith in Him. This is the very truth that drove David Livingstone. We preach the gospel because we are commanded to and because that is how God has chosen to bring men to Himself.
    And we do take John 3 literally (I assume what you meant by face value). I encourage you to be cautious you do not pull verses or parts of a verse out of context. As I have said in reply to another concerning John 3. Christ is stressing that salvation is not confined to the Jews, as they had thought, but rather every people group in the world. He is not just redeeming people out of one nation, but out of all the nations of the world.

    “ And don’t even get me started on “limited atonement”!
    ISAIAH 53
    6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity OF US ALL. ” This ties in with your interpretation of “that the world through Him might be saved”. It is a very vital doctrine. What you have done is drained all power from the blood of Christ, and reduced Him to a failure. I pray people see what this false belief of “universal atonement” really does. It says Christ has tired to save every single man, but has failed. It says that He didn’t actually pay for anyone’s sins on the cross. It says that He didn’t know who he was buying, as that is dependent upon your individual choice. The biblical terms of atonement, propitiation, and ransom have to be redefined to support this fallacious view. It emphasizes man, as they are the final determinant in their salvation. The blood of Christ makes no difference between Hitler and Spurgeon; rather their choice made the difference. I so wish all (by that I mean all believers) could see how unbiblical this teaching is. In reality, you believe in a limited atonement. You limit it in power, and I limit its extent. For you, the atonement is a wide bridge half-way to God, and man must make the other half. But I have a narrow bridge that reaches all the way across.
    And concerning Isaiah 53, that is one of the most powerful passages supporting definite atonement. I again urge you to study it in it’s context. Find out who the “us” and “all we like sheep” are. Notice who Christ saw in his purpose of redemption. Isaiah 53 is most powerful.

    In closing, I am grateful for your comments and welcome the opportunity to attempt to express these biblical doctrines more clearly to you. I pray The LORD will give you grace to accept them.

    Your brother,
    Daniel

    August 6, 2008 at 10:37 pm

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